The fifth episode of the new ScreenSkills podcast is now live! Listen below or subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Intro
Welcome to The ScreenSkills Podcast in partnership with the Adobe Foundation. I'm Matthew Walsh. And I'm Carley Bowman. And we're your hosts from ScreenSkills, the UK-wide skills body for the screen industries. But the real focus is on those working in film, TV and animation across the UK as we unpick the stories that matter to them.
Each episode, we explore different themes within the industry and speak to some of its members to discuss how it impacts both their and the wider sector's work. We go beyond the camera to get the behind-the-scenes breakdown all things production and we hear from those making the content you love.
Host, Matthew Walsh
Hello and welcome to the fifth episode of The ScreenSkills Podcast. I am Matthew Walsh, and I am joined as ever by Carley Bowman. Hi Carley, how are you?
Host, Carley Bowman
Hi Matthew, I'm good thanks. How are you? You've been away.
Matthew Walsh
I have, that's true. Yes, I am very well, thank you. Really nice break, but lovely to be back and working alongside you on the podcast.
Carley Bowman
Oh, you sweetie. You've had a lovely break from me, but it's great to have you back anyway.
Matthew Walsh
On this episode, we're kind of looking inwards to discuss matters at the heart of those working within the screen industry at different levels. So a bit later on, you'll hear all about the High-end TV (HETV) Leaders of Tomorrow programme, which is one of the key flagship programmes from the High-end TV Skills Funds that we run here at ScreenSkills. And it was created a few years ago to really support progression within different departments of HETV and improve the diversity of those working within senior leadership roles. It's a really important programme which has had a real impact since its launch three years ago. So good to hear a bit more about the programme itself and hear from some of those voices that are taking part in this year's iteration.
Carley Bowman
Absolutely.
Matthew Walsh
Yeah, but before that, as I was away, Carley got to speak to Marcus Ryder at The Film and TV Charity.
Carley Bowman
That's right, yes. Marcus was very generous to give us some time to talk about the Charity's latest ‘Looking Glass survey’ - about the state of mental health in TV, film and cinema. And they do the survey every two years and this time they spoke to over 4,000 people working in the industries and they were quite shocking findings, actually. And he talked about a crisis facing the workforce and mental health and some of the drivers [of this]. We go into detail talking about how loneliness is a really big issue at the moment. Also, things that people are more familiar with like lack of job security, financial instability and also just generally the intensity of the type of work that freelancers particularly do in the industry. So it's quite a difficult listen in parts, I think. But also, there are some positives to take away from it and some actions for productions and for freelancers to try and improve the state of mental health generally. So, I'd really encourage people to listen all the way through.
Matthew Walsh
Yeah, and we'll be signposting to some of the support and those resources that are available to those working at different levels across the industry, both hosted on the ScreenSkills website and issued by The Film and TV Charity themselves. So, do visit our website! We'll be posting across socials and subscribe to our newsletter to find out where there is support available for those who need it.
Carley Bowman
Absolutely. Shall we listen to the interview with Marcus?
Matthew Walsh
Yeah, let's hear it.
In conversation with Marcus Ryder
Marcus Ryder
I'm Marcus Ryder. I'm the CEO of The Film and TV Charity. The Film and TV Charity looks after the physical, mental and financial wellbeing of people working in film, television and cinema in the UK. And we do that through the lens of diversity and equity, recognising that one size does not fit all. And we have to make sure that our services are attuned to the needs of our beneficiaries.
Carley Bowman
Marcus, welcome to The ScreenSkills Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Marcus Ryder
Thank you so much, Carley, for having me.
Carley Bowman
So you're here to talk about the latest ‘Looking Glass survey’ on the state of mental health in film, TV and cinema. It's just been released. Can you tell us what it is and what the key findings were, please?
Marcus Ryder
Sure. So, the ‘Looking Glass survey’, The Film and TV Charity does that every two years. And it's a massive survey. It’s a massive undertaking by the Charity to get a temperature check of the mental health of people working in film, television and cinema in the UK. And we think it's the only survey of its kind in the world looking at people working in film, television and cinema. And so, we're very proud of it. It's there to inform ourselves, the Charity, so we can do evidence-based work. But it's there also to inform broadcasters, production companies, ScreenSkills, everybody in film, television, and cinema so they actually know whether their work is working, what policies they should be rolling out, who they should be concentrating on, et cetera, et cetera. So, it's really a public good to help inform how we move forward and address what is fundamentally a mental health crisis in our sector.
Carley Bowman
A mental health crisis. So, tell us Marcus, what were the key findings of the 2024 survey?
Marcus Ryder
So... trigger warnings, I just need to give you a few trigger warnings because I will be talking about one or two things which people might find difficult. Especially when we're talking about mental health. But for example, over a third, 35% of our respondents said that over the last 12 months, they've experienced poor or very poor mental health, working in film and television specifically. What's worse is that that has increased dramatically from the last time that we did the survey, when it was 24%. So that's gone up, you know, by 50%, by half.
Carley Bowman
Wow.
Marcus Ryder
What we're also finding is that people reporting whether the industry is a mentally healthy place to work is very low. It's only 12% of our respondents who thought it was a mentally healthy place to work. Now that ironically is actually an improvement. Previously it was 11 % and two years ago and two years before that it was 10%. So, we are seeing improvement of a sort, but the progress is glacial. And then when we're looking with regards to things such as suicide, we have some quite dramatic statistics of 30% of respondents having suicidal ideations, which is a lot higher than the general population.
So, by each criteria, we're seeing some really quite worrying statistics and we're seeing the drivers, the things that drive mental health issues also getting worse. So for example, loneliness is a major driver of mental health issues and we're seeing loneliness is incredibly high in the industry. We're seeing fears around financial precarity, worried about whether you can find work, very high as well. So it's not a good picture. It's a worrying picture for a lot of people. And what we're worried about – obviously, the first thing we need to worry about – is people's mental health. So we’re worried about the individuals. But as an industry, one of the questions we asked is, have you considered leaving the industry due to your concerns about mental health? And 64% had. Now, that number has remained relatively consistent. You know, lots of people often... it's a freelance industry or large parts of it is freelance. So, 64%, although it sounds very high, is and it is very high, we're not as concerned about it as opposed to the second statistic, which is a third, 32%, have taken firm action towards leaving the industry. And so that's filling out CVs, actually applying for jobs, telling their nearest and dearest that they want to leave. So this isn't just something that's mulling around in their head. This is them actually taking firm action. And we're seeing older people, people in their 40s, people in their 50s, wanting to take that firm action.
Carley Bowman
And so these are established people.
Marcus Ryder
Established people. And if those people leave the industry, we are going to see a talent drain, the likes of which we haven't seen. And what's also worrying is that if you look at the different characteristics, as well as age, the people who are thinking of leaving... it disproportionately hits carers. So that's parents. It's also people looking after elderly relatives, mothers, fathers, et cetera. And it also disproportionately hits black and global majority people and disabled people and LGBTQ people as well. And so what you're seeing is the potential for a terrible skills drain and it disproportionately hitting the really hard fought for diversity over the last couple of years that was seen as well.
Sorry to start your podcast [like this], you were so smiley at the start and I love coming into your podcast, Carley, so thank you so much for inviting me. But I feel that it is a crisis. It is a crisis and we need to recognise that. That doesn't mean we can't address the crisis. And hopefully as the podcast goes on, I can talk about ways in which we are addressing the crisis, how the industry is addressing the crisis and there's definitely some positives in the way that this crisis is being addressed. But we have to first recognise that it is a crisis.
Carley Bowman
Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's really big survey. I think it was over 4,000 respondents, is that right, to the survey? So, it is a really kind of true picture representation of what's happening. And what do you think, before we talk about the positives, which I really want to do, why do you think this is happening? Like what is it that's kind of prompting these responses?
Marcus Ryder
So first of all, thanks so much for bringing up that it’s 4,000. My Head of Research would have told me off if we'd let this podcast, you know, if we'd finished this podcast without me mentioning the sample size and the fact that it really was representative. So, looking at Diamond Data, also looking at ONS data, et cetera, having that 4,000 meant that we were representative around the country. So we were proportional to the response in Scotland, Wales, outside of London, inside London, et cetera. We slightly over-indexed on freelancers versus staff, and we slightly over-indexed in what we think is the proportion of women to men, but just slightly. And if you read the report, we slice and dice through gender and we slice and dice through freelancers and employees as well. So you can look at the different characteristics as well. So, we were really, really pleased. We owe the broadcasters, and we owe different employee support groups, and we owe a lot of the production companies a massive thanks because it went out through their networks and they really helped us and I think ScreenSkills as well also helped us. So thank you so much because we having that wealth of data means that we really can answer your questions properly.
But what's driving it, you ask?
Carley Bowman
I am.
Marcus Ryder
So I'm going to answer that! So loneliness is a major, major driver. That's also slightly different from isolation. People can be alone but not lonely, so they get confused. And people can be in a crowd and lonely. And so that loneliness can take and be caused by many forms. So, for example, we are now... the last statistic I saw was 62% of people making films are freelancers. And so, between gigs, people are very lonely and they're scared. They're also often scared that they won't be able to get the next gig as well.
And so that loneliness of being between gigs, not knowing when your next job is, is very real. And what we're seeing as well in our other report that we did a few months ago called Money Matters, what we're seeing with that is that the gaps between contracts seem to be getting longer as well. So that's increasing people's loneliness. So we have to find a way to make sure that we build community between freelancers, between creatives, when they're not in work.
So The Film and TV Charity, for example, we offer free workspace for anybody working in film and television. They can just log on and they can come and work in our offices in Soho amongst fellow creatives. And so, they're not isolated and alone, working on development projects, sending out CVs, looking for jobs on Talent Manager just by themselves or alone in a Starbucks or whatever. So they still feel part of a community and we need to find different ways to build that community. We'll be putting on an Iftar, for example, to make sure that Muslims feel that they have a community. You know, we have to... we find different ways. We have a running club tonight. I'm going to be going to the running club. You're very welcome to join us. It's seven o'clock!
Carley Bowman
Thank you very much.
Marcus Ryder
We’re heading out from 22 Golden Square, from our offices. So, you know, if you want to join us, you're very welcome. But yeah... seriously, it's trying to find different ways of building community constantly amongst freelancers and employees. So loneliness is a major factor and it's not just between contracts and gigs that people are lonely. We have to address loneliness because it's such a transitory workforce that sometimes people can feel very lonely. I experienced real loneliness when I moved. I worked in at the BBC for 24 years and when I moved from London to Glasgow, it was a promotion. And so, I became Head of Current Affairs at BBC Scotland. It was an absolute promotion and there's no way I felt that I was in any position to complain because it was a promotion. But in the process, I lost a lot of my support structures that I had down in London. I had recently got married and my wife did not have a job so I was working away from her and for the first two years I was incredibly lonely. And that can happen if you are working on, you know, as you have to on a production which is away from your family. You know, that can be months on end. And so we need to find ways to address and not just think of loneliness as when you are alone. You may be on a production. You may even, like myself, have a promotion. We all suffer loneliness or can suffer loneliness. And it can be very acute, especially in film and television productions, where you may be working for long periods of time away from family. So loneliness is a major driver.
Another major drive for mental health is financial precarity. And so, again, working in freelance, in a freelance capacity, that financial precarity is real. Knowing whether you can actually pay your mortgage or rent or put food on the table. You know, that stress is incredibly real. So, we need to find ways in which we can alleviate that stress. Sometimes it will be incredibly short-term measures such as The Film and TV Charity gives hardship grants – stop-gap grants – to people when they do have that unexpected bill and it can weigh heavily on you. So, last year or the year before last, almost a million pounds went out of our doors in stop-gap grants. Now that was due to the writers’ strike and the actors’ strike last year. But the new normal is pretty bad still. So we're still talking about hundreds of thousands of pounds which is going out of our door to people who need it, who are in desperate need because it's really hard to plan financially.
Every freelancer can talk about the situation where they thought they were going to start working February and then all of a sudden they get the phone call and the production has either been cancelled or it's now going to be April. And they're like, what am I going to do for the next two months? Or they're in production. And so they are getting paid, but they know that that contract is coming to an end next month or in two weeks' time and they've got nothing else lined up. And they're looking at their friends and their friends are saying that it's cold out there and that there's no work out there right now because we know that the industry is contracting presently and so that even when you're in work it can be really stressful.
And then the other thing which we really want to address, and we are addressing as a charity, we're addressing it with the industry... production is stressful.
Carley Bowman
That's the intensity of being on production and the expectations [that come with it].
Marcus Ryder
Yeah, absolutely. And there are so many things that we are not getting right or we could be doing better. We know that bullying and not even as extreme as bullying, bad management is prevalent. Some would even say rife in far too many productions, which is why the Film and TV Charity has the Whole Picture Toolkit, which more and more productions are taking up. We were really pleased that BBC Sport used it on the Euros and used it at the Olympics. So it's on high-end dramas, it's on very small productions as well. So it's ways in which we can try and address the causes of poor mental health, which are caused on production. And that's increasing. So, more and more productions are taking that up.
Carley Bowman
And Marcus, on the Whole Picture Toolkit, just to say the survey found, didn’t it, that in places where it had been used on production, that there was actually reporting of slightly better mental health than the rest of the respondents. Is that right? So actually it was showing positive impacts.
Marcus Ryder
Carley, you set that up so beautifully!
Carley Bowman
It's important to say where it's working!
Marcus Ryder
Thank you! No, no, no, absolutely. So what we found was that this is the first time... as I say the survey, we've been doing it every two years. And this is the first time we've asked questions about people using the charity services to find out whether the charity services are actually working or not. What's the impact? And that stat which I gave you at the beginning, which is 35% of people said that they'd experienced poor or very poor mental health over the 12 months... That stat, where people had used or worked on productions with the Whole Picture Toolkit, that fell to 24%. Now, don't get me wrong, 24 % is still too high. But to be able to fall to 24% means that it's having a real impact.
Similarly, the stat which I gave you, which is 12% of people think that the industry is a mentally healthy place to work... people who'd worked on the Whole Picture Toolkit or on productions using the whole picture toolkit, that jumped to 24%. So it doubled. It is significant. Now you still want to have more than just 24% thinking it's a mentally healthy place to work. You know, that's nothing to... you know, not popping the champagne on that one. But it's a massive jump. And every single criteria where we measure people's mental health, the people who had worked on productions, which had used the Whole Picture Toolkit, there was a positive correlation. And I'm always nervous that correlation is not causation. But because there is so much correlation and also I talked to my Head of Research and he runs these different regressions of looking for causality and what have you, that we are very confident that working on productions which use the Whole Picture Toolkit have better mental health outcomes. There is absolutely no doubt about that now.
Carley Bowman
And so just tell us for those that haven't come across it and we would encourage to use it, what is the Whole Picture Toolkit? It’s a framework?
Marcus Ryder
It's a framework. It's a set of tools, online tools that... so what happens is that you can just go on to The Film and TV Charity website. You search for the Whole Picture Toolkit and you can find a set of tools that you can use when you're working in your production, ways of setting up your production, ways of setting up meetings, ways of communicating with your team, different things you need to do with your team, et cetera. And you can just engage with it that way. We don't recommend that and most people don't.
What happens is that people get in contact. We have engagement producers and our engagement producers ask you some questions about your production. So, what kind of production is it? What's the genre? What's the size of your team? What kind of budget do you have? Et cetera, et cetera. And they then say, okay, well then we think that here are the tools from the Toolkit that we think you should use. Those engagement producers have all worked in production previously and they all have specialisms. So, some have worked in current affairs, others have worked in drama, in scripting, others have worked in specialist factual, et cetera, et cetera. And so they really know what they're talking about there. They can really connect with the different productions that they're talking to. And then they help that production through how they use the Toolkit and which tools they should use.
Now hundreds, literally hundreds of productions and production companies are now using it and it keeps growing more and more every day. As I said, there's some really high-profile ones, but also some really small ones, you know, so it shows that it's really adaptable. And because you can use the tools without the engagement producers, we don't actually know. We know of hundreds... I think it's close to, it's over 300. I think it might be closing in on 400 different productions, which are using it now, but we think the number's higher because once you've got used to it, once you've engaged with the engagement producers, you don't have to keep coming back to us. So we think it's higher, but there's no way of absolutely tracking...
Carley Bowman
All those people as well who how to use it. So one of the things... I mean, it'd be really good to know what you think the industry needs to do to go further and to try and improve the survey results in two years' time from now, right? And one of the quotes in the executive summary of the survey was, you say, “we must hold our nerve, we must dig in, we have work to do”. So what is the ‘work’ that we need to do in your view?
Marcus Ryder
Okay, so the fact of the matter is that the industry since 2019, and I've put that down to when the first ‘Looking Glass survey’ was done, so I do think, and I can say this without boasting because I wasn't connected to the charity then! But I think the charity was instrumental in changing the conversation with regards to mental health in the industry. And I think since that first survey’s results in 2019, the industry has really made a real commitment. If you talk to broadcasters, if you talk to the big production companies and the small production companies, if you talk to Banijay, All3Media, Fremantle, if you talk to the streamers, all of them recognise the importance of mental health. And they are all putting resources into it. So that's the good news. The bad news is, as I said before, the figures are... the progress is glacial. It’s going from 10% four, five years ago, thinking it was a mentally healthy place to work to two years later, 11%, to the current stats, 12%. You know, it's the progress despite the resources being put in, is glacial.
But what we're seeing is that with real targeted action, so things such as the Whole Picture Toolkit, you can get jumps. You can jump from 12% to 24% in a single year. You know, can jump from 35% or you can progress from 35% thinking it's having a serious mental health issue to 24%. And so I think the lesson for me on that is that if you can take targeted action, actually say what is actually driving this? And make sure that we place our money to address the causes... go upstream. We often talk about working upstream at the charity and working downstream, but if we can work upstream to address the causes, I think real progress can be made.
And then the other thing which I didn't talk about is one of the other causes is bullying for poor mental health and what we are seeing in the survey results and the industry has recognised that. So the industry has to really try to implement policies which address bullying. Now don't get me wrong, there's still bullying, I'm not niave. But again, that is a pan-industry targeted approach to addressing an issue. And if you look at ‘Looking Glass’ results, we are seeing real progress in people feeling more confident to talk about bullying, more confident to report bullying, and less people experiencing bullying. So the good news is that targeted and pan-industry approaches yield results. And I think that's a really important message that we have to get across. Otherwise, my fear is that we will just keep seeing the negative results and we'll just decide, you know, we'll just give up. You know, my fear is that the broadcasters will say, we gave, you know, we've dedicated X amount of money and look, the stats are so bad. Or, you know, or the streamers will say we gave X amount of money and oh God, what's the difference? It's hardly even specifically significant from 11% to 12%. Oh, who cares? And so my fear is that you can go away thinking that we're not making progress. If you actually really dig into the figures, you can see that progress can and is being made, but it really has to be targeted. It has to be coordinated and ideally it really should be pan-industry.
Carley Bowman
That's great, Marcus. Thank you. I think that's a really strong message and it's about continuing to collaborate, continuing to understand what the drivers are, as you say, and then really taking targeted action. That's what I'm kind of hearing from you.
Marcus Ryder
Yes! And then the other thing is, is making sure that people come to our comedy night next week! But joking aside, it's making sure that we recognise that we're working in a creative community and that creative community is finding lots of different ways in which we can bond and actually enjoy our work and enjoy the people that we're working with. So, joking aside, some of my highlights last year was going to the Carol service that the Film and TV Charity did, going to the Iftar last year. I'm looking forward to this Iftar. Going to the fun things. This is a fun industry! It should be a fun industry. So let's make sure that we celebrate and we find the joy and find the fun. And that will give us the strength to address the more negative stats that the CEO of The Film and TV Charity comes on and starts talking about the crisis. Let's find the fun because if all we do is talk about the crisis, it's going to be too hard. It's just going to be too hard for all of us.
Carley Bowman
Marcus, thank you. That's a great way to end. Thanks so much.
Marcus Ryder
Thanks so much, Carley.
Leaders of Tomorrow
Matthew Walsh
For four years the HETV Leaders of Tomorrow programme has been supporting career progression through tailored training and placement opportunities for mid-level professionals working across the sector. In our demystifying segment we find out a bit more about the programme, how it's supporting diversity in the HETV industry and shaping the leadership landscape. Recently we attended the welcome event to meet the new cohort and speak to some of those who've already taken part to hear how the programme has helped their high-end TV careers.
You'll also hear from Programme Manager Hannah Green, the industry members who have nominated or mentored candidates and HETV Council Chair, Barry Ryan, who kicks things off.
Barry Ryan
I want to thank the BBC and Sky especially for their continued support. They've been with us since the very beginning and their commitment has enabled us to expand the programme and offer even more opportunities to emerge in talent. Those who provided training, mentors and placements and the individuals who identified and championed the talent of our participants. And a big special thank you go to the HETV Skills Fund team. To the fourth cohort of Leaders of Tomorrow, here tonight, this is your moment. Embrace the opportunities ahead and remember that you are here to lead the change our industry needs. So, your journey starts now. Together we're shaping a brighter and more inclusive future for the industry.
Hannah Green
My name is Hannah Green, and I am one of the senior managers in the high-end TV team and I oversee the Leaders of Tomorrow programme and our professional skills.
The High-end TV Leaders of Tomorrow programme is a three-year stepping up programme. It's an inclusive programme so what that means is that we are trying to increase representation on senior level roles across the high-end TV industry. So it's not aimed at one underrepresented group, we are trying to support underrepresentation across the board. So that could be ethnicity, it could be disability, it could be because you live in Scotland and you don't have access to the London and Southeast networks required. To date we have supported 83 individuals across four cohorts. They're from a variety of backgrounds and departments with over 75% women, 35% from a global majority, 25% having disclosed a disability, and over 70% are from outside of London.
Thomas Sample
My name's Thomas Sample. I'm an assistant art director. I'm from Newcastle. Leaders of Tomorrow puts an immense amount of support into somebody. I think that's what lets you build a career successfully, especially with help. I think it does a phenomenal job of specifically connecting people without the background that some people have certain advantages of, right? Whether that's race, gender, sexual identity, economic background, whatever it happens to be, I think it serves a really, really good role.
Teresa Reynolds-Bartram
My name's Teresa Reynolds-Bartram. I'm a hair and make-up artist. Being on this programme, I think we've also got a real wealth of talent and knowledge within our cohort. So I'm looking forward to getting to know everybody else more as well.
Hannah Green
So the aim is to give them tools to progress to a senior level decision-making role in the future. So we aren't making them become a leader, we are offering a programme of support as they step up. The support they receive includes a mentor over the three years, a bursary which can go towards their training or equipment costs, a suite of leadership training sessions including coaching, invitations to networking events, access needs support, mental health support and access to a pool of high-end TV professionals for one-to-one advice if they need it. They also receive funding towards on-the-job training opportunities on HETV shows that have paid into their HETV Skills Fund.
So that is the skeleton of the training. However, the beauty of the programme is that we work individually with each one of the Leaders of Tomorrow to really work out what their challenges are and what is stopping them from stepping up, what's making them hit that glass ceiling. And we're really developing with them their very own bespoke journey about how they become a senior leader.
Teresa Reynolds-Bartram
And I think for me, it's given me the opportunity to kind of start again on my own terms, but with like support and like mentoring. Mentoring is something that I find is definitely needed but not a lot of people have time for and it's hard to make it work. So the fact that it's like such an integral part of the programme was one of the reasons why I applied was like, I definitely want a mentor. I need support moving forward in the industry so I think that aspect is something that's really good and I think this programme is really special.
Thomas Sample
So the bursary scheme for me is something that's going to be really beneficial to be able to do focus and specific training. I mean, my personal goal is to learn and be able to draw with Vectorworks and Rhino, which are two CAD drawing software. Rhino is a 3D modelling software and Vectorworks is a 2D drawing vector-based software.
Payam Hosseinian
Hello, my name is Payam Hosseinian. I'm supervising sound editor and sound designer working with Bang Post Production. I was part of cohort one of Leaders of Tomorrow in 2021. Some of the courses, they were absolutely amazing leadership courses, confidence building courses. I think we must have had like at least 20 of them throughout three years and you know some of them really, really amazing.
Hannah Green
The programme was designed by industry in partnership with the fund with the ambition to address the issue of you can't be what you can't see. So it's really focused on giving people from different backgrounds opportunities to become that change.
Doug Sinclair
Hello, my name's Doug Sinclair. I am a director and co-owner of Bang Post Production. A lot of people, I think, are equipped to do a job, they just don't know it yet. And I think it helps to put them in a space where they can actually realise that they have the skillset, and they have the confidence to actually progress.
Hannah Green
So, to get on to the programme, to apply for the programme, you have to be nominated by a senior high-end TV professional and it's more like a talent spotting. So it's more if you are nominating somebody, you're nominating that person because you've recognised in that person the skills to become a potential leader. So that person may think for whatever reason that they are not applicable to be a senior leader because they don't see people who look like them in that role.
Adam Knopf
I'm Adam Knopf and I'm a producer based in Wales. I think having a nominator and having somebody who's been that vote of confidence means that you've already got like a port of call and you know that somebody is looking out for you and happy to give you their support and you can go to them for questions. I think schemes such as the Leaders of Tomorrow are brilliant because they offer a viable pathway for the crew to kind of scale up the ladder to leadership.
Carly Guy
I'm Carly Guy and I've been working in the industry for 10 years in hair and make-up and effects. I've been on a job with a couple of times with a colleague who's on one of the previous years [of Leaders of Tomorrow] and she wanted to nominate me. It's nice when a colleague recognises your strengths and appreciates you. So yeah, that was really nice and quite affirming to have someone want to put you forward.
Hannah Green
The Leaders of Tomorrow programme is fairly new. So it was piloted in 2021 and it's a three-year programme. So, our first cohort graduated in September 2024. So, we're still at fairly kind of early days, but we can now see the full success of a cohort. And already we're seeing people stepping up and we're seeing how the programme really helps. We have some great examples from Leaders of Tomorrow [cohort] one.
Payam Hosseinian
After three years, you know, I'm part of something that I really love. I've learned loads and I think my confidence has grown as, you know, even as a sound effects editor. I have directly worked with directors, with composers, with editors. I have that creative back and forth. I've had that for three years now and I think I've learned a lot from it.
Hannah Green
We had further investment from BBC, Sky and Netflix who funded further placements on the programme.
Kiri Degon started out as a post-coordinator, but then quickly stepped up to post-super on one of her early on-the-job training opportunities. By the end of the programme, she was shadowing the line producer on Seesaw Films' Sweetpea for Sky. So that opportunity was a brilliant time for her to really have that on-the-job training stepping up more into the line producing, producing direction. The High-end TV Leaders of Tomorrow programme could not exist without the support of the industry. From the mentors who all offer their time fantastically to support the leaders of tomorrow, to each and one of every single placement that we run.
Doug Sinclair
We were talking to ScreenSkills and they mentioned the Leaders of Tomorrow programme and what attracted me was the fact that you were already talking to people who were in the industry and it was an opportunity to bring someone in who already had a career and helped to further it. And not only that. It was the fact that ScreenSkills were there to support us as a facility as well as the mentees because I think people assume that people who have companies and have facilities know how to mentor people. But it's not necessarily the case if you've not done it before and it was good to have the support of ScreenSkills for us as well as the way they supported Payam. So, we both felt that there was there was a bit of backing to get us through the process. You know, being able to bring somebody in who already had a skillset and then further it, you know, has worked brilliantly.
Hannah Green
The Leaders of Tomorrow programme was designed by industry for industry. It's all about supporting those individuals on their journey.
Matthew Walsh
So that's all from us on this episode of The ScreenSkills Podcast. Thank you to all of you for listening. And if you do want to find out more about the Leaders of Tomorrow programme, we'll be following the journey of all the latest cohort members across our social platforms and our website. So, visit ScreenSkills.com/LOT to find more about the programme.
Carley Bowman
And if you feel affected by the interview that we've done with Marcus on this episode, or if you want some mental health support, The Film and TV Charity have a number you can call, which is 0800 054 0000. And on the ScreenSkills website, we also have some resources and some training around mental health issues. There's our Work Well e-learning series, and there's also the mental health training guidance for employers. So those are practical things that you can do to improve the state of mental health in the screen industries. Also, there's a Q&A with Marcus, is that right, Matthew?
Matthew Walsh
That's right. Yeah, that'll be coming out as when this episode is launched. So yeah, keep an eye out for that because it's really interesting stuff that he has to say about the industry as a whole, how it's affecting those within it and what resources are available and how easily accessible they can be for those who need it.
Carley Bowman
That's great. So if you want to get in touch with us, you can reach us by email at podcast@ScreenSkills.com or you can check us out on our social platforms.
Matthew Walsh
That's right, and we'll be back next month as we take a closer look at the role of intimacy coordinator. But until then, thank you very much for listening and we'll see you next month.
Carley Bowman
See you soon.
Outro
This has been a ScreenSkills podcast in partnership with the Adobe Foundation, hosted by Matthew Walsh and Carley Bowman. It was produced and edited by Gabby Sharrock and marketing by Natalie Tandoh. The design and imagery were created by Gabby Sharrock.
The fifth episode of the ScreenSkills podcast, launched in partnership with The Adobe Foundation, puts the workforce at the heart of the conversation.
We speak to Marcus Ryder, CEO of The Film and TV Charity, about the mental health of the industry's workforce in light of their Looking Glass survey findings. He tells us about some of the alarming results, how things can be improved and shares some of the measures already having a positive impact.
We also learn about the HETV Skills Fund's Leaders of Tomorrow programme, an inclusion initiative designed to improve the diversity of those in leadership roles across the sector. Programme manager Hannah Green provides a programme overview while members of the new and previous cohorts tell us how the programme is helping develop their careers.
Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussions of mental health, including references to suicidal ideation. Please listen with care, and reach out for support if needed. The Film and TV Charity's 24-hour support line is 0800 054 0000. You can also contact the charity by using their live chat service.
Discover more
Read a Q&A with Marcus Ryder
Looking Glass survey
Find out more about the Film and TV Charity's workforce survey
Find out more
Visit the Leaders of Tomorrow hub
Work Well
Take our free e-learning designed to create healthier productions